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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:28 am 
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Huh..... I see....... so the expansion of air requires heat, therefore it takes the heat out of the metal? So really you think the fins are heating fins (for the cylinders) rather than cooling fins?
...woah..

Thats cool about the big smokestacks too... that's been a mystery to me for a while, but now it makes sense.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:44 am 
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yeah, banks, its the same reason a superchargers and turbochargers have an intercooler before the manifold---to dump the heat generated from compression. the opposite thing happens when air expands---it draws heat from the surroundings.

thermodynamics, man. thermodynamics!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:17 pm 
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Dragulajeeper wrote:
UGMiner Banks wrote:
Also, another question, What was the purpose of the huge (wide) smokestacks on some locomotives (Page 3 of this thread from Chris's SD trip). Why are some stacks straight, and some made so big and wide like that?


The wide stack is for locomotives that burn wood. The stack had a bunch of fins in it and the embers would bounce around in it until it cools off and then fly out so it does not catch the train itself on fire or start a wildfire, etc etc.


Additionally there are many variations within the basic styles (big wide stack for wood, narrow straight stack for coal or oil). The stack is the visible part of the drafting system for the fire. It is important for the stack and blast pipes (which sits under the stack inside the smokebox) to draft as efficiently as possible in order to create the ultimate burning conditions and have most of the fuel burn before it is ejected from the stack.

The most modern steam locomotives, and improved old steamers, have new blast pipes and nozzles which can also result in changes to the outward appearance of the stack. Dante Porta was the most recent designer to focus on nozzles and some locos running in the states have versions of his systems. See http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/kylchap/

The next time you are around a steam locomotive with the front smokebox door open, take a look at the apparatus under the stack. You will see how the cylinders eject steam upwards into the blast pipe, in turn sucking the smoke coming through the flues with it. The shape of the stack is part of this whole system,

In old locomotives with simple blast pipes, you would often see a very tall straight smokestack. The height of the stack was needed to help the draft. As locomotives grew larger and the height available for the stack was compromised, the internal blast pipe design became more and more important.

Rob

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:58 pm 
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Holy smokestacks john it came to me like an epiphany!


I know exactly the valves Senor Davis is talking about from Pioneer's 0-4-0... Its all coming clear to me!

I feel I've been baptized in a mixture of steam, smoke, and compressed air! All hail the shining rail!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:59 pm 
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:lol: :roll: oh brother, now hes done it.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:56 pm 
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LOL

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:38 am 
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John,

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing this. Do you know of any diagrams of the Kylchap nozzle setup? As seen with some of the modern large steamers, some of them have just about no external stack at all.

Miner Greg


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:42 pm 
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we were at the lc&n greenwood breaker last weekend and saw they have an industrial loco up there. looks to be around 30 ton center cab loco. not sure of the make, didnt get close. they dont have active rail service into the breaker, however the rail lines still connect to it. the loco is off on a siding but the rail is buried up to it. no pics, it was getting dark, but ill get some maybe sat. its light blue with the old companies lehigh logo on the cab. cool lookin loco. i also have a photo of the ge loco up at the jeddo breaker site in hazelton i need to dig up.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:47 pm 
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Location: Within 60 Miles of the Northern Anthracite Field
Jeddo GE Loco

Image

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Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:55 am 
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Its a shame to see these loco's sit there. :x

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:23 am 
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here's a smaller GE like the Jeddo locomotive

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:26 am 
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A Whitcomb

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:35 am 
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Whoa, Good stuff here!


Chris, that GE at Jeddo is actually a 35-Ton end-cab unit, which was built for them back in 1955. It has spent its entire career at the Jeddo Breaker.

John, as for the former Lima Trade Center GE, it is a 25-Tonner. Not sure about the history, as I don't have a serial for it.

Now for the Whitcomb 20-Ton, it appears to be a former Bethlehem Steel unit, probably from the Bethlehem, Johnstown or Sparrows Point, Md plants . Were you able to get the serial off that unit? Will do more research on where it came from using the road number.


Ray


Last edited by Industrial Rail Ray on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:52 am 
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Ray I got the info on the Lima Trade Center unit.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:33 am 
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A Plymouth

Image

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and something very interesting.......

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didn't get any serial numbers, ray.

john

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